If you're a guitar buff, you're already well acquainted with Tom Principato, or have an album or two in your collection. If you don't, well -- you're in for a treat when you take that crash course. Aficionados know him for his associations with Danny Gatton (BLAZING TELECASTERS), Geoff Muldaur (I AIN'T DRUNK), Powerhouse (NIGHT LIFE), and Jimmy Thackeray (NO PREVIOUS RECORD, PARTNERS IN CRIME). That's before we get to his various session credits (including James Montgomery, Sunnyland Slim, and Big Mama Thornton), and long string of solo albums, starting with BLAZING TELECASTERS, an album that almost nudged its way into a Grammy Award nomination.
All these events, and more, are detailed in Tom's latest project, THEY TELL ME I HAD A GOOD TIME!, an 86-page account of nearly 50 years in the music business, one in which he's done things his own way all along. It's a path that, as Tom acknowledges in his introduction, came with its pros and cons: "The fact that I did it all myself could explain why I've advanced as far as I have in the Music Business -- and it could also be the reason why I never advanced any further than I did. But at least now I own all the masters and copyrights for to my catalogue of recordings, songs and original music; and I never have to hear from another record company that my 'check is in the mail.'"
That same dedication applies to the archival CD and DVD releases from Roy Buchanan and Danny Gatton on Powerhouse, Tom's imprint for those efforts, as well as his own work -- enabling another generation to dig deeper behind the instrumental mystique that defines both late guitarists, and get excited about it all over again, some 20-odd years after their tragic deaths.Â
Tom recently took time out to answer some questions, via the magic of the Internet, about his rationale for writing They Tell Me, as he did, and the licks and tricks he picked up along a journey that's taken him from Boston, to Washington, DC, Istanbul, the Montreux Jazz Festival...and beyond.Â
CHAIRMAN RALPH (CR): The million dollar question, of course: why now, at this point in your life? Did you always have it in the back of your mind, to write a book, or did you get that inspiration recently? Will we get another book, or is this a one-off?
TOM PRINCIPATO (TP): Now that I'm in my 60's and newly married for the first time in my life, I've been easing into "semi-retirement". I used to travel a lot, particularly to Europe and now I just mostly do a few gigs a year local to the D.C. area. I've always had the idea to write this book, and lately I've had the time to spend on it. It's sort of a "looking back" kind of thing for me, and it was a lot of fun to do it â researching some facts, testing my memory and re-connecting with some old friends and band mates to ask them what they remembered about certain things. It's already been suggested that I do an expanded edition, but we'll see about that...I wanted to keep this one short and sweet with no filler.
CR: As you mention, you always knew music would be your calling, though your parents had different ideas â your father, particularly. I'm guessing that you grew up in a traditional household, and he had different plans for you.
TP: Because our family enjoyed Comedy a lot when I was growing up, my Mother always said she was afraid I would want to be a comedian. My father was a professional photographer, and had a dark room in our basement that I used to spend a lot of time in. My father discouraged me from being a photographer â I think he was afraid I wouldn't make any money at it. But I showed them â I became a musician!
CR: I'm struck by this, since Holly alludes to the same issue with Danny in my book. What would you tell other young people who might face the same position today?
TP: My best advice to anyone wanting to be a musician today would be follow your heart and plan on using a lot of patience and perseverance.
CR: I read your comments on âThe Three Kingsâ â BB, Albert, and Freddie â with great interest, since I saw BB myself in the spring of 1984, and many of those same qualities that you describe came across loud and clear, though that show came much later in his life and career, of course.
What did you learn from each of them, and what kind of imprint did they leave on your music? How do you feel their influence fit, or didn't fit, into the blues-rock booms of the late '60s and mid- to late '80s, which were a decidedly different beast (musically speaking)?
TP: The #1 I thing I learned from BB King was to play from the heart, and to carry yourself with honesty and integrity. I've really tried to follow that in my musical and business dealings in life. from Albert and Freddie King, I just mostly learned by observing their examples how to play the hell out of a guitar.
CR: When did you feel âlegit,â so to speak? When you made your first album, or became a bandleader, or did you have that feeling from the get-go, with the James Montgomery experience?
TP: In the early 70's in Boston when I first was attempting to be a Professional musician, I could see once I had played for a while with James Montgomery's band that I could navigate the music business and do it full time. I had the passion, and the love for guitar and blues music. I also think that when Powerhouse did our first LP in 1975 for Billy Hancock's Aladdin Records, that I and we were legitimized as Pro Musicians.
CR: Washington, D.C., as we've discussed , always seems to have existed a breed apart from other cities. What factors made it that way, and how did you see yourself fitting into that framework? How did it change as the decades passed? (Other than the raising of the drinking age to 21, which many folks from that era have cited.)
TP: Because Washington was a very affluent white collar town, there were always a lot of clubs and a lot of places for bands to work. There was somewhat of community of bands that were all feeding off each other and also helping draw attention to each other too. there were a lot of Blues and roots music bands in those days, and great places to play like the Cellar Door, Childe Harold, and the Psyche Delly.
CR: How do you look back on your work with Danny, and how you feel his reputation has changed since his death, especially in comparison to Roy? What impact did he make on you, as a musician?
Sharing music with Danny Gatton has been a milestone in my life for sure. Looking back now, I wish that at the times that we were playing together, that i was farther along in my development as a guitarist, just so i could keep up with him. I used to warm up for an hour before going on stage with Danny â it was such a challenge. I learned a lot about collecting eclectic influences into one package from Danny. In short, just play what you love and you'll be having the most fun and doing your best, and doing what you love best. Danny's reputation has definitely grown since he passed. I'm glad to see that, and i hope that I've helped in a small way to further his legacy through the archival recordings I've released by him. He's no longer a big secret â a lot of people know about Danny and his great music now.
For some reason, it appears to me that Roy Buchanan still has a rather large cult following. I think he benefited a lot from his recording contract with Polydor in the 70's. Once Roy started touring the World, he became an International guitar star.
CR: Your book contains several examples of âwhat not to do,â on the bandstand, and off â notably, the Albert King and Frank Zappa stories. I'm thinking of a band director who told me in high school, âTo be a good musician, you need a good attitude.â In other words, talent isn't enough â what advice would you give up and comers in this area, if they were willing to listen, and you were in a position to give it out?
TP: Well, one thing that is so very prevalent in "the music business" is Ego. Frank that night had a lot of it. Navigating with humility is best--let your actions speak for themselves.
CR: Did you ever reach a point where you felt frustrated enough to say, âThat's itâ â like after the Ichiban debacle, for instance? What qualities does a musician need to weather that kind of situation, and keep doing what they love most â especially since you don't get niceties like health insurance and/or pension plans?
TP: I've always been a very determined and driven person. When something like the Ichiban bankruptcy happens, it just makes me more determined to learn from the mistakes, and pull it all together and re-build. Once again â patience and perseverance are a must. I've always on the other hand felt very lucky to be doing all of my life what I have loved â playing music. It's been important and easy for me to keep that in perspective and realize the alternative is a stupid job I hate.
CR: What led you to go into semi-retirement? If you were talking to someone who'd never heard to your music before, what album would you recommend to get them interested in exploring it?
TP: The more I traveled, the harder physically it became. And since I'm newly married, I've really been enjoying staying off the road, being home with my family. I didn't have much time for a home and family life when I was always traveling before.I like to think that each of my albums has been better that the previous, and I feel that my latest studio album Robert Johnson Told Me So is my best.
CR: Looking back on your career now, what do you consider your biggest achievement? I'm reminded of what Roger McDuffie told me for the Gatton book, which I'll paraphrase as follows, roughly: âSad as it is, a lot of legends are just forgotten.â
That comment makes me think of people like Paul Butterfield, whom you mention â someone who never got his due while he was still here, yet remains a reference point that no musician should overlook (along with his cohort, Mike Bloomfield, whom we've discussed, too). Is there still a passion project that you haven't yet done, and if so, what is it?
TP: I think my biggest achievement is just that fact that my whole life I've always been involved in music, and never had to have a "real job". And because I've always done what I love, I feel I'm in good health emotionally and physically from that. As difficult as it is to be a musician, I've always been really happy doing just that.
I've been wanting to do a tribute to BB King album of all his songs. We'll see if I can pull that one off!....
MORE INFO
http://www.powerhouserecords.com/
Danny Gatton Corner
A WORD FROM THE MANAGEMENT: Now posted, from the previous incarnation of this website: "54 Hours In D.C." (below). To view older entries, just hit the "Archive" button, followed by the relevant headline link on each entry.
"I'VE ALWAYS DONE WHAT I LOVE": 10 QUESTIONS FOR TOM PRINCIPATO
"THIS WAS A LABOR OF LOVE": VIRGINIA QUESADA DISCUSSES "THE HUMBLER" DOCUMENTARY ON DANNY GATTON (10/08/16)
What more needs saying about Danny Gatton, that hasn't been aired already? If superlatives alone paid royalties, it goes without saying that Danny would have been the richest six-string slinger on the block. But whether you saw him live, picked up one of his homegrown indie releases, or -- in my case -- willingly gave up two years of my life to write the first biography, Unfinished Business: The Life & Times of Danny Gatton (Backbeat Books: 2003), one thing is certain.
Once you heard or saw Danny work his special brand of magic on the guitar, two things typically happened: first, you never forgot it, and second, you invariably found yourself asking, "Can I hear more?" Twenty-two years after Danny's tragic, untimely death at 49, the interest in his music -- and legacy -- shows no signs of slowing down yet.
Enter Virginia Quesada, an independent filmmaker who's deep into The Humbler, a long-awaited -- and, frankly, long overdue -- full-length documentary exploration of Danny's life and art. It's a project that, once released, is likely to take the appreciation of Danny's "Telemaster" guitar magic to a whole new level, and -- maybe, finally, possibly -- win over another generation of fans who haven't discovered him yet.
Getting there hasn't been easy, naturally. Like many indie artists and filmmakers, Quesada chose an online campaign to ratchet up awareness and funding for her project, which -- as you'll see shortly -- met its goal, which seemed like a good starting point to begin our conversation.
MORE INFO: https://www.thehumblermovie.com/
"WHO'S OUT THERE,
AND WHO LOVES DANNY GATTON?"
VQ: We really wanted a grass roots support. If people just gave a dollar, $5, whatever. That's how Obama built his campaign. And we're getting people from all over the world. I mean, that's always been the case, as we expanded into our social media. That's the whole thing: who's out there, and who loves Danny Gatton? You just find people all over the world: instrumentalists, you know.
CR: Of course. Well, tell me some of the countries that have been weighing in, then.
VQ: Well, I mean, the obvious one, the core is the United States, you know?
CR: Of course.
VQ: And so, Number Two would probably be the UK. Then you're pretty much looking at Europe. And, depending on the day, it could be France, or Germany, or Finland, or Belgium. Italy has a lot of supporters, and you do find people in Japan. But then, you also find people in Mexico. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised: it was like, “Wow!”
I mean, he did do a couple of tours overseas. As we know, there was a certain reluctance to travel.
CR: To travel widely, yeah.
VQ: Yes, to travel widely. I mean, he did travel, and he gave it a shot. But he got, as Norma [Gatton] would say, “road fried.” He just didn't like it. He liked being home, with his friends, his family, and his hobbies, you know. Who can blame him? Because, in a lot of ways, he was a regular guy with enormous talent, you know?
I mean, we do have an interesting audience for music (in Washington, D.C.). People enjoy playing here. They sense that we have good ears, and are very attentive, and that kind of thing.
There's a lot of discussion. It's like, “Well, there must be something in the water. Look at all these guitarists that came out of the mid-Atlantic (region): you've got Danny Gatton, Roy Buchanan, Link Wray, and...” Some people I've met, in the process of doing this project, say: “My favorite guitarists are always from this D.C. region.”
What is that, you know? So I don't know. Maybe there is something in the water. But it isn't necessarily a great place to launch a career. It doesn't have the recording studios.
CR: It doesn't have the recording studios, and of course, there's, really, just basically a handful of clubs now, right?
VQ: That's the sad thing, and that's an undercurrent I've been sort of interested in. Going through these old Unicorn Times – there was even a rag called Maryland Musician. There was enough stuff, that they had a magazine just for Maryland musicians. And every night, there was like, a million clubs! You could work six days a week, and ironically, you almost get paid the same today, that you got back then (laughs).
CR: Yup, that's right.
VQ: It's pretty sad. And the club owners are doing even less to promote, expecting you to bring the crowd... It's tough. I find it really sad, because live music is sort of, a big source of joy in my life.
"HE WAS SO SPECTACULAR AS AN ARTIST"
CR: So, take me back a little bit, then. How did this particular journey toward this documentary begin for you?
VQ: In 1989, I formed a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization called Video Culture, Inc. The whole purpose of that was so that we could do portraits about artists. The mission of the organization is musical art awareness, so that we could do these profiles.
And we started with one profile, it was called “Maryland Musicians,” or something like that. We were looking at Danny Gatton, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, and Buck Hill. Danny, though, I just so enamored with, because he was so spectacular as an artist. So we shot four cameras at the Flood Zone, in Richmond, VA. We went down there all day, set up the lights, and set up the sound system.
When you put a microphone in, it went to three places. It went to the board PA, the house PA, the band PA, and up to a 24-track recording studio. So they (the management) said to me, “Well, Virginia, would you like to roll some 24-track?” We were, as always, on a shoestring budget, but we said, “Sure, why not?”
So, I have about half of this night with 24-track – and then, the four cameras, very nicely lit. And it is a lot of the core of our documentary. We have been blessed with a lot of people giving us original recordings of Danny they have taken over the years. We also went down to Newburg, MD, to his farm.
CR: Right.
VQ: Everybody wanted to go, so we had two cameras, two video cameras, and still photographers, and we spent all day there, did a very extensive interview with him. He did thank me, and said this was one of the best interviews that he'd ever done in his life, 'cause we hit more than just the superficial stuff.
That, again, is a core element to the documentary. When we lost him, we were like, “Well, what are we gonna do?” What we ended up doing is then starting to interview those people who knew him.
"WE HAVE A LOT OF INTERVIEWS"
CR: What is it going to take, money-wise, to get this done? And about how far along are you?
VQ: Well, we're pretty far along in principal photography. We have a lot of interviews. Doing documentaries is something I do for a living, either as a producer, or an editor. And you can only have so many characters in the story. It gets confusing.
CR: And crowded.
VQ: Yeah, and crowded, so there will probably be some folks that won't make it. Or, we're working hard with these DVD extras, they could maybe go on that. And social media's another outlet for a lot of stories that might be too long for a documentary, but would be lovely for real diehard fans who wanna hear a story.
To musicians, the amount of money we have – $36,000 – is like a fortune, right? Now, we were fortunate enough to have Guitar Player and Guitar World saying, “Well, they're asking for a lot, $36,000.” That's because you wanna get a goal that's reachable, okay?
CR: Yes.
"HE'S JUST ABOUT TO POP"
VQ: This would give us enough to finish the shooting, finish the editing. We will still need money for additional licensing. This is a cross to bear, for any of these projects – music licensing money has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and harder and harder, even as we make the case, “We are a nonprofit, it's not a big commercial thing...”
But a lot of the strategy that people do is that you get it to that certain point – when we get that rough cut done, the editing – then you can maybe use that to generate a little bit more money, (or) maybe (seek) an investor.
One of my favorites is 88 Elmira St, because that's what I learned first. I just played it to death, played it to death, over and over and over. And then, after we lost him, we decided to do a whole piece on Danny. One of the pieces we'd licensed is Jim Hall's “Redneck Jazz Explosion,” with them wearing the red shirts.
And I'm looking at Danny playing “Orange Blossom Special,” and I'm going, “What? What?” (laughs) It knocked my socks off. Not that it was any less of 88 Elmira St, but it was just a whole other side of him, hearing some of the banjo licks, and stuff. Actually, people have given me stuff with him playing banjo, some stuff with him playing mandolin – some of that early work.
One person said it to me – that Danny before the accident, and after the accident, was almost like two different players. I can sort of see what he means, because there was this sort of, youthful spontaneity kind of thing, before the accident. But then, after the accident – he still had as much soul, but his technique had evolved even more and more. So that was also fantastic. And I think his jazz stuff got more spectacular.
When I came on (to start the documentary), it was like, “This guy is so great, he's just about to pop” – then you read these articles from the '70s, and they're saying, “This guy's so great, he's just about to pop (laughs).” You kept hearing that for years: “He's just about to make it, this is it!”
There's something a little sad about that. But then, there's also reasons why that (wider success never) happened. He seemed to have a little ambivalence about it. To be a really successful musician, in terms of business, you have to really be good at self-promotion. And that just wasn't his thing.
CR: No. Personally, I would agree with Joe Barden, who said that part of the issue was, Danny preferred to have a buddy running interference, but needed somebody that was maybe a little better connected, in the framework of the business, who could have theoretically performed that same function.
VQ: Right. No, he says in the interview, “I don't play with that many different guys. For me, it's important to play with people I have some rapport with, like family. And that's why I've played with the same old guys so long.” He really wasn't comfortable to be in a band with nobody he didn't know. And I think that's true.
I remember talking to Joe. And he said something to the extent, when they were both hitting in '89 – the pickup business was going well, and Danny was getting all this press – and Joe and Danny looked at each other: “Well, are you ready for this? Do you want this?” And both of them were kind of like: “No, not really” (laughs).
CR: Right. On the flipside, were there any misconceptions or popular notions about Danny that you think this particular film will demolish? And if so, what might they be?
VQ: Well, I don't think so. I mean, we really see this as a celebration of the man, and the music. As you know, there's some sad parts of the story we're not gonna really dwell on too much. We don't wanna see the suicide as the defining moment, or issues with depression. I mean, clearly, there had to be some kind of depression to cause him to feel like the world would be better off without him.
CR: Yeah.
"HE WAS A BOTTOMLESS PIT OF INVENTION"
VQ: He was such a generous and well-loved man. He had such great talent, and he was a bottomless pit of invention. So we're really gonna focus more on that – I can't think of too many things that aren't well-known, but in some ways, I think the intimacy is what we can bring to it, that people haven't seen elsewhere, in terms of Danny telling his own story, and hearing it more from him.
He was always doing something, but maybe he needed to get away from the music sometimes. And he did. As Norma said, “The cars and guitars, those two did compete with each other.”
CR: Yes, and I had people tell me that, too.
VQ: We did interview Jay Monterose, and Jay was always saying, “That time in between – after the accident – Danny says that was the happiest time of his life, when he could just work on the cars.” And Jan said, “If you wanna do that, that's fine. I'm behind you doing that.” But he couldn't quite let the music go. He had such a gift. If he heard it, he could play it. He could take any piece of music that entered his muse, and send it out through his fingers.
And not that he didn't appreciate it, and not that he didn't work very, very hard in those early years to really develop those skills – he had so many different interests, with the cars and guitars. He also was interested in American Indian archeology. That was something he really liked. He just loved antiques, and things like that, animals.
CR: Right.
VQ: So he was a complicated man, in that way.
CR: Very much so. So, if we're gonna try to this into a neat little bow...
VQ: Oh, no (laughs).
CR: What is the reason we should continue to remember Danny, celebrate his music, and look to him as an important influence among guitar players?
VQ: Well, I think the title of the movie kind of helps explain it. He got the nickname, “The Humbler,” because his mastery of all the American genres of music – blues, jazz, country, rockabilly, rhythm and blues, rock, you name it – was so impressive, that other guitarists nicknamed him, or called him, “The Humbler.” Amos Garrett gets credit for the actual...
CR: Nickname.
VQ: Nickname. But, in some ways, it just really stuck. He may have shared “The World's Greatest Unknown Guitarist” with Roy Buchanan. He got it after Roy passed. But “The Humbler” is his. So he is an American treasure, because he's an American master guitarist. He really takes all those genres of music, and is able to play all those so authentically. It's pretty awesome.
So I think, in some ways, when you celebrate Danny Gatton, you're celebrating American music. And that really is what he really excelled (at) – I mean, he was an all-American guy, you know. American cars, American guitars, Fender amps, you know...
"AMERICAN MUSIC...AND IT'S MINE"
CR: And it goes back to that song on that first Fat Boys album: “American music, and it's mine.”
VQ: Right, exactly. When we went down and shot him in the Flood Zone, there were a couple of guys in the audience, holding up the album cover.
CR: Wow!
VQ: Did you see that story that we did with Jack Casady? Well, Jack and Danny grew up here – and he (Casady) has a great story, where Danny's bass player was sick, right? He needed a bass player, so he was asking. And at that time, Jack, like everybody else, started as a guitarist.
CR: Right. VQ: So he called up Jack: “Do you know any bass players?” And Jack is (saying), “I don't know.” And he says, “Well, why don't you play the bass, Jack?” And Jack says to Danny, “I don't play bass!”
And Danny says, “Well, how hard can it be? It's only got four strings!” So he (Casady) did that gig, and really got to like the bass, and so, the rest is history. He just moved on to being a bass player. We'll be lucky to break even. This was a labor of love.
CR: Sure.
VQ: And I hope folks understand that. It's something that we've done for a long time – but it's good, and it'll be good to get it done. I'm looking forward to it. And it is fun. You start to meet people, like you, you know? – and get to have this conversation, and that's fun.
CR: Yeah, exactly. And I've had the same experience on the other end, too, so...
VQ: Okay, well, thank you for your time, thank you for your book, and it was a pleasure talking to you.
CR: Indeed. Thank you for your time, and all the effort and hard work that you've put in.
VQ: Okay, thanks.
Once you heard or saw Danny work his special brand of magic on the guitar, two things typically happened: first, you never forgot it, and second, you invariably found yourself asking, "Can I hear more?" Twenty-two years after Danny's tragic, untimely death at 49, the interest in his music -- and legacy -- shows no signs of slowing down yet.
Enter Virginia Quesada, an independent filmmaker who's deep into The Humbler, a long-awaited -- and, frankly, long overdue -- full-length documentary exploration of Danny's life and art. It's a project that, once released, is likely to take the appreciation of Danny's "Telemaster" guitar magic to a whole new level, and -- maybe, finally, possibly -- win over another generation of fans who haven't discovered him yet.
Getting there hasn't been easy, naturally. Like many indie artists and filmmakers, Quesada chose an online campaign to ratchet up awareness and funding for her project, which -- as you'll see shortly -- met its goal, which seemed like a good starting point to begin our conversation.
MORE INFO: https://www.thehumblermovie.com/
"WHO'S OUT THERE,
AND WHO LOVES DANNY GATTON?"
VQ: We really wanted a grass roots support. If people just gave a dollar, $5, whatever. That's how Obama built his campaign. And we're getting people from all over the world. I mean, that's always been the case, as we expanded into our social media. That's the whole thing: who's out there, and who loves Danny Gatton? You just find people all over the world: instrumentalists, you know.
CR: Of course. Well, tell me some of the countries that have been weighing in, then.
VQ: Well, I mean, the obvious one, the core is the United States, you know?
CR: Of course.
VQ: And so, Number Two would probably be the UK. Then you're pretty much looking at Europe. And, depending on the day, it could be France, or Germany, or Finland, or Belgium. Italy has a lot of supporters, and you do find people in Japan. But then, you also find people in Mexico. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised: it was like, “Wow!”
I mean, he did do a couple of tours overseas. As we know, there was a certain reluctance to travel.
CR: To travel widely, yeah.
VQ: Yes, to travel widely. I mean, he did travel, and he gave it a shot. But he got, as Norma [Gatton] would say, “road fried.” He just didn't like it. He liked being home, with his friends, his family, and his hobbies, you know. Who can blame him? Because, in a lot of ways, he was a regular guy with enormous talent, you know?
I mean, we do have an interesting audience for music (in Washington, D.C.). People enjoy playing here. They sense that we have good ears, and are very attentive, and that kind of thing.
There's a lot of discussion. It's like, “Well, there must be something in the water. Look at all these guitarists that came out of the mid-Atlantic (region): you've got Danny Gatton, Roy Buchanan, Link Wray, and...” Some people I've met, in the process of doing this project, say: “My favorite guitarists are always from this D.C. region.”
What is that, you know? So I don't know. Maybe there is something in the water. But it isn't necessarily a great place to launch a career. It doesn't have the recording studios.
CR: It doesn't have the recording studios, and of course, there's, really, just basically a handful of clubs now, right?
VQ: That's the sad thing, and that's an undercurrent I've been sort of interested in. Going through these old Unicorn Times – there was even a rag called Maryland Musician. There was enough stuff, that they had a magazine just for Maryland musicians. And every night, there was like, a million clubs! You could work six days a week, and ironically, you almost get paid the same today, that you got back then (laughs).
CR: Yup, that's right.
VQ: It's pretty sad. And the club owners are doing even less to promote, expecting you to bring the crowd... It's tough. I find it really sad, because live music is sort of, a big source of joy in my life.
"HE WAS SO SPECTACULAR AS AN ARTIST"
CR: So, take me back a little bit, then. How did this particular journey toward this documentary begin for you?
VQ: In 1989, I formed a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization called Video Culture, Inc. The whole purpose of that was so that we could do portraits about artists. The mission of the organization is musical art awareness, so that we could do these profiles.
And we started with one profile, it was called “Maryland Musicians,” or something like that. We were looking at Danny Gatton, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, and Buck Hill. Danny, though, I just so enamored with, because he was so spectacular as an artist. So we shot four cameras at the Flood Zone, in Richmond, VA. We went down there all day, set up the lights, and set up the sound system.
When you put a microphone in, it went to three places. It went to the board PA, the house PA, the band PA, and up to a 24-track recording studio. So they (the management) said to me, “Well, Virginia, would you like to roll some 24-track?” We were, as always, on a shoestring budget, but we said, “Sure, why not?”
So, I have about half of this night with 24-track – and then, the four cameras, very nicely lit. And it is a lot of the core of our documentary. We have been blessed with a lot of people giving us original recordings of Danny they have taken over the years. We also went down to Newburg, MD, to his farm.
CR: Right.
VQ: Everybody wanted to go, so we had two cameras, two video cameras, and still photographers, and we spent all day there, did a very extensive interview with him. He did thank me, and said this was one of the best interviews that he'd ever done in his life, 'cause we hit more than just the superficial stuff.
That, again, is a core element to the documentary. When we lost him, we were like, “Well, what are we gonna do?” What we ended up doing is then starting to interview those people who knew him.
"WE HAVE A LOT OF INTERVIEWS"
CR: What is it going to take, money-wise, to get this done? And about how far along are you?
VQ: Well, we're pretty far along in principal photography. We have a lot of interviews. Doing documentaries is something I do for a living, either as a producer, or an editor. And you can only have so many characters in the story. It gets confusing.
CR: And crowded.
VQ: Yeah, and crowded, so there will probably be some folks that won't make it. Or, we're working hard with these DVD extras, they could maybe go on that. And social media's another outlet for a lot of stories that might be too long for a documentary, but would be lovely for real diehard fans who wanna hear a story.
To musicians, the amount of money we have – $36,000 – is like a fortune, right? Now, we were fortunate enough to have Guitar Player and Guitar World saying, “Well, they're asking for a lot, $36,000.” That's because you wanna get a goal that's reachable, okay?
CR: Yes.
"HE'S JUST ABOUT TO POP"
VQ: This would give us enough to finish the shooting, finish the editing. We will still need money for additional licensing. This is a cross to bear, for any of these projects – music licensing money has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, and harder and harder, even as we make the case, “We are a nonprofit, it's not a big commercial thing...”
But a lot of the strategy that people do is that you get it to that certain point – when we get that rough cut done, the editing – then you can maybe use that to generate a little bit more money, (or) maybe (seek) an investor.
One of my favorites is 88 Elmira St, because that's what I learned first. I just played it to death, played it to death, over and over and over. And then, after we lost him, we decided to do a whole piece on Danny. One of the pieces we'd licensed is Jim Hall's “Redneck Jazz Explosion,” with them wearing the red shirts.
And I'm looking at Danny playing “Orange Blossom Special,” and I'm going, “What? What?” (laughs) It knocked my socks off. Not that it was any less of 88 Elmira St, but it was just a whole other side of him, hearing some of the banjo licks, and stuff. Actually, people have given me stuff with him playing banjo, some stuff with him playing mandolin – some of that early work.
One person said it to me – that Danny before the accident, and after the accident, was almost like two different players. I can sort of see what he means, because there was this sort of, youthful spontaneity kind of thing, before the accident. But then, after the accident – he still had as much soul, but his technique had evolved even more and more. So that was also fantastic. And I think his jazz stuff got more spectacular.
When I came on (to start the documentary), it was like, “This guy is so great, he's just about to pop” – then you read these articles from the '70s, and they're saying, “This guy's so great, he's just about to pop (laughs).” You kept hearing that for years: “He's just about to make it, this is it!”
There's something a little sad about that. But then, there's also reasons why that (wider success never) happened. He seemed to have a little ambivalence about it. To be a really successful musician, in terms of business, you have to really be good at self-promotion. And that just wasn't his thing.
CR: No. Personally, I would agree with Joe Barden, who said that part of the issue was, Danny preferred to have a buddy running interference, but needed somebody that was maybe a little better connected, in the framework of the business, who could have theoretically performed that same function.
VQ: Right. No, he says in the interview, “I don't play with that many different guys. For me, it's important to play with people I have some rapport with, like family. And that's why I've played with the same old guys so long.” He really wasn't comfortable to be in a band with nobody he didn't know. And I think that's true.
I remember talking to Joe. And he said something to the extent, when they were both hitting in '89 – the pickup business was going well, and Danny was getting all this press – and Joe and Danny looked at each other: “Well, are you ready for this? Do you want this?” And both of them were kind of like: “No, not really” (laughs).
CR: Right. On the flipside, were there any misconceptions or popular notions about Danny that you think this particular film will demolish? And if so, what might they be?
VQ: Well, I don't think so. I mean, we really see this as a celebration of the man, and the music. As you know, there's some sad parts of the story we're not gonna really dwell on too much. We don't wanna see the suicide as the defining moment, or issues with depression. I mean, clearly, there had to be some kind of depression to cause him to feel like the world would be better off without him.
CR: Yeah.
"HE WAS A BOTTOMLESS PIT OF INVENTION"
VQ: He was such a generous and well-loved man. He had such great talent, and he was a bottomless pit of invention. So we're really gonna focus more on that – I can't think of too many things that aren't well-known, but in some ways, I think the intimacy is what we can bring to it, that people haven't seen elsewhere, in terms of Danny telling his own story, and hearing it more from him.
He was always doing something, but maybe he needed to get away from the music sometimes. And he did. As Norma said, “The cars and guitars, those two did compete with each other.”
CR: Yes, and I had people tell me that, too.
VQ: We did interview Jay Monterose, and Jay was always saying, “That time in between – after the accident – Danny says that was the happiest time of his life, when he could just work on the cars.” And Jan said, “If you wanna do that, that's fine. I'm behind you doing that.” But he couldn't quite let the music go. He had such a gift. If he heard it, he could play it. He could take any piece of music that entered his muse, and send it out through his fingers.
And not that he didn't appreciate it, and not that he didn't work very, very hard in those early years to really develop those skills – he had so many different interests, with the cars and guitars. He also was interested in American Indian archeology. That was something he really liked. He just loved antiques, and things like that, animals.
CR: Right.
VQ: So he was a complicated man, in that way.
CR: Very much so. So, if we're gonna try to this into a neat little bow...
VQ: Oh, no (laughs).
CR: What is the reason we should continue to remember Danny, celebrate his music, and look to him as an important influence among guitar players?
VQ: Well, I think the title of the movie kind of helps explain it. He got the nickname, “The Humbler,” because his mastery of all the American genres of music – blues, jazz, country, rockabilly, rhythm and blues, rock, you name it – was so impressive, that other guitarists nicknamed him, or called him, “The Humbler.” Amos Garrett gets credit for the actual...
CR: Nickname.
VQ: Nickname. But, in some ways, it just really stuck. He may have shared “The World's Greatest Unknown Guitarist” with Roy Buchanan. He got it after Roy passed. But “The Humbler” is his. So he is an American treasure, because he's an American master guitarist. He really takes all those genres of music, and is able to play all those so authentically. It's pretty awesome.
So I think, in some ways, when you celebrate Danny Gatton, you're celebrating American music. And that really is what he really excelled (at) – I mean, he was an all-American guy, you know. American cars, American guitars, Fender amps, you know...
"AMERICAN MUSIC...AND IT'S MINE"
CR: And it goes back to that song on that first Fat Boys album: “American music, and it's mine.”
VQ: Right, exactly. When we went down and shot him in the Flood Zone, there were a couple of guys in the audience, holding up the album cover.
CR: Wow!
VQ: Did you see that story that we did with Jack Casady? Well, Jack and Danny grew up here – and he (Casady) has a great story, where Danny's bass player was sick, right? He needed a bass player, so he was asking. And at that time, Jack, like everybody else, started as a guitarist.
CR: Right. VQ: So he called up Jack: “Do you know any bass players?” And Jack is (saying), “I don't know.” And he says, “Well, why don't you play the bass, Jack?” And Jack says to Danny, “I don't play bass!”
And Danny says, “Well, how hard can it be? It's only got four strings!” So he (Casady) did that gig, and really got to like the bass, and so, the rest is history. He just moved on to being a bass player. We'll be lucky to break even. This was a labor of love.
CR: Sure.
VQ: And I hope folks understand that. It's something that we've done for a long time – but it's good, and it'll be good to get it done. I'm looking forward to it. And it is fun. You start to meet people, like you, you know? – and get to have this conversation, and that's fun.
CR: Yeah, exactly. And I've had the same experience on the other end, too, so...
VQ: Okay, well, thank you for your time, thank you for your book, and it was a pleasure talking to you.
CR: Indeed. Thank you for your time, and all the effort and hard work that you've put in.
VQ: Okay, thanks.
54 HOURS IN WASHINGTON, D.C.: MY APPEARANCE AT OLSSON'S BOOKS & RECORDS, ARLINGTON, VA (11/07/03)
Some people take vacation days to shake off the wreckage from their workplace: I spent mine signing 100 copies of my book, UNFINISHED BUSINESS: THE LIFE & TIMES OF DANNY GATTON.
Simon & Schuster sales representative Charlie D. Young suggested the trip, since Olsson's supported Danny long before his hair-raising guitar abilities spread beyond his Maryland-Virginia-D.C. stomping grounds.
No problem: my webmaster (Don Hargraves) and I were up to the trip. We left at 5:30 p.m. Thursday (11/6) and spent the night in Mars, PA (which has the same anonymous burger joints and strip malls you see everywhere else).
Our 3:30 p.m. arrival helped avoid the notorious Beltway gridlock, find the store and sign 40 of the 100 (!) copies Olsson's intended for its holiday gift guide. I spend 20 minutes scribbling variations on my signature and creative messages (like "Yours Truly, From Gatton Central").
We kill another hour at Orpheus Records, where Charlie arrives; he's going to introduce me. On our way to the signing, we stop at the Hard Times Cafe - which we're sure Danny would have loved, for the burgers and chili.
About 15 people show up for the signing, including Dave Elliott, Danny's drummer of 18 years. I read 'em four or five passages: the fruitless warnings to Danny against modifying his guitars so drastically get the biggest laugh: "He took that guitar home, hacked it out, made a swimming pool in it, and put three white-coil Patent Applied For humbucking pickups in it." (For further reference, see Chapter 4: "The '53 Tele & The Pickup Man.")
But everyone's armed themselves with intelligent questions: Did he enjoy international success? Why did the Elektra deal sour? Who were Danny's biggest influences? What he was doing from his child prodigy years to the Redneck Jazz Explosion era?
My favorite moment comes during the signing, when a guy says: "I used to deliver the Washington Post during the '70s, and Danny's house was on my route: lots of barking, [antique] cars everywhere: it was one scary looking house!" We share a good laugh about that one.
My signing duties over, I spend another hour taping a radio interview with Michael Buckley (WRNR-FM) that should provide fodder for a thoughtful review of Danny's legacy.
Don and I round off our night at Charlie's house taping live Gatton CDs, including Take It Away - a bluesy, smokin' '89 gig with Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen (billed as "Jack & The Degenerates") - and P.G. County Funk. Both are 150-minute double CDs, too...ah, hell, sleep can wait.
We return to Michigan by 11 p.m. Saturday. Our 54 hours in D.C. are over, but those hot-wired leads on "Harlem Nocturne" and "Sleepwalk" from P.G. County Funk still resonate in my head. The night's been good.
...POSTSCRIPT: 9/30/08
Little did Don and I know that, barely five years later, one of D.C.'s premiere independent outposts would close its doors, sucked down into a perfect storm of booming e-commerce, declining sales and an economic slowdown that was just beginning to intertwine its tentacles around every nook and cranny of our nation. Here's how the company's original press release:
"Olsson Enterprises, Inc., trading as Olsson’s Books & Records closes stores and petitions court for Chapter 7 conversion.
"Olsson Enterprises, Inc., trading as Olsson’s Books & Records, Record & Tape Ltd., and Olsson’s Books announced today that it has closed all of its locations and petitioned the U.S. Bankruptcy Court District of Maryland for conversion of its current Chapter 11 protection to Chapter 7.
"The reasons given for the petitioning were stagnant sales, low cash reserves, and an inability to renegotiate current leases, along with a continuing weak retail economy and plummeting music sales.
"Olsson’s was granted Chapter 11 protection on July 11 this year in order to work on an aggressive reorganization plan involving selected store closings and large cuts in overhead costs. At the same time the Lansburgh/ Penn Quarter location on 7th Street, N.W. was shuttered to make way for a new London-based restaurant.
"Olsson’s was established in 1972 and grew to as many as nine retail stores in the Washington, D.C. metro area with sales over $16 million a year and as many as 200 employees. Currently there are five retail stores: Reagan National Airport, Old Town Alexandria, Arlington Courthouse, Crystal City, and one in Northwest Washington at Dupont Circle. Olsson’s earned its reputation as a locally-owned community-oriented retailer with a knowledgeable staff selling a wide selection of books, music, video and gifts.
"Stephen Wallace-Haines, Olsson’s general manager stated: 'In the end, all the roads towards reorganization led to this dead end: we did not have the money required to pay for product in advance, to collect reserves to buy for Christmas, and satisfy the demands of rent and operational costs. We were losing money just by staying open.'
"John Olsson, principal owner, Washington native and graduate of Catholic University had this to say, 'Although it is certainly a sad day for us, I can rejoice in all the great memories of my life in retail in Washington. I began at Discount Record Shop on Connecticut Avenue in the fall of 1958, and worked there until 1972 when I left to open my own record store at 1900 L Street. Along the way books were added, more locations, a couple thousand employees, and many thousands of customers. It was exhilarating. Through it all, our best and brightest served Washington’s best and brightest with love and distinction. I’m very proud of what we accomplished. My love and gratitude to all my employees, and special thanks to all those thousands of loyal customers.'"
After the announcement, Olsson's allowed people to weigh in on its blog -- and people wasted little time taking that opportunity. For those who care to take a peek, I'm response #344. To read everybody's thoughts, go here: http://www.olssons.com/blog/archives/1.
These are no small points in a nation where more than 1,000 bookstores closed between 2000 and 2007, leaving about 10,600 standing, according to the latest federal stats that I was able to unearth. Obviously, the growing popularity of e-books and the vicarious thrill of being able to buy an old favorite online has something to do with that figure.
I, for one, am not saying that trend's necessarily bad; e-books have given a lot of authors a new lease on life, one that I fully intend to explore, as well. And I've never been one to rhapsodize about "the good old days," and how wonderful they were, to the exclusion of everything going down today.
The reality is, those who don't want to give up and "go along with the program" will always have to fight for their fair share of real estate -- whether that struggle happens to occur on the air, onstage or at live events like the one that I just chronicled above. But if you feel that an idea's worth fighting for, you won't mind doing the legwork...as the late Rob Tyner once told me: "The only thing that goes with the flow is a dead fish."
John Olsson is gone, too. He died at 78 in October 2010, after a long battle with cancer. However, he left an imprint that won't ever be forgotten, one befitting the man who championed maverick talents like Eva Cassidy, and Danny Gatton. I saw that philosophy in action back in November 2003, and -- though we never met, nor spoke -- all I can say is, "John, thanks for making me feel at home."
Simon & Schuster sales representative Charlie D. Young suggested the trip, since Olsson's supported Danny long before his hair-raising guitar abilities spread beyond his Maryland-Virginia-D.C. stomping grounds.
No problem: my webmaster (Don Hargraves) and I were up to the trip. We left at 5:30 p.m. Thursday (11/6) and spent the night in Mars, PA (which has the same anonymous burger joints and strip malls you see everywhere else).
Our 3:30 p.m. arrival helped avoid the notorious Beltway gridlock, find the store and sign 40 of the 100 (!) copies Olsson's intended for its holiday gift guide. I spend 20 minutes scribbling variations on my signature and creative messages (like "Yours Truly, From Gatton Central").
We kill another hour at Orpheus Records, where Charlie arrives; he's going to introduce me. On our way to the signing, we stop at the Hard Times Cafe - which we're sure Danny would have loved, for the burgers and chili.
About 15 people show up for the signing, including Dave Elliott, Danny's drummer of 18 years. I read 'em four or five passages: the fruitless warnings to Danny against modifying his guitars so drastically get the biggest laugh: "He took that guitar home, hacked it out, made a swimming pool in it, and put three white-coil Patent Applied For humbucking pickups in it." (For further reference, see Chapter 4: "The '53 Tele & The Pickup Man.")
But everyone's armed themselves with intelligent questions: Did he enjoy international success? Why did the Elektra deal sour? Who were Danny's biggest influences? What he was doing from his child prodigy years to the Redneck Jazz Explosion era?
My favorite moment comes during the signing, when a guy says: "I used to deliver the Washington Post during the '70s, and Danny's house was on my route: lots of barking, [antique] cars everywhere: it was one scary looking house!" We share a good laugh about that one.
My signing duties over, I spend another hour taping a radio interview with Michael Buckley (WRNR-FM) that should provide fodder for a thoughtful review of Danny's legacy.
Don and I round off our night at Charlie's house taping live Gatton CDs, including Take It Away - a bluesy, smokin' '89 gig with Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen (billed as "Jack & The Degenerates") - and P.G. County Funk. Both are 150-minute double CDs, too...ah, hell, sleep can wait.
We return to Michigan by 11 p.m. Saturday. Our 54 hours in D.C. are over, but those hot-wired leads on "Harlem Nocturne" and "Sleepwalk" from P.G. County Funk still resonate in my head. The night's been good.
...POSTSCRIPT: 9/30/08
Little did Don and I know that, barely five years later, one of D.C.'s premiere independent outposts would close its doors, sucked down into a perfect storm of booming e-commerce, declining sales and an economic slowdown that was just beginning to intertwine its tentacles around every nook and cranny of our nation. Here's how the company's original press release:
"Olsson Enterprises, Inc., trading as Olsson’s Books & Records closes stores and petitions court for Chapter 7 conversion.
"Olsson Enterprises, Inc., trading as Olsson’s Books & Records, Record & Tape Ltd., and Olsson’s Books announced today that it has closed all of its locations and petitioned the U.S. Bankruptcy Court District of Maryland for conversion of its current Chapter 11 protection to Chapter 7.
"The reasons given for the petitioning were stagnant sales, low cash reserves, and an inability to renegotiate current leases, along with a continuing weak retail economy and plummeting music sales.
"Olsson’s was granted Chapter 11 protection on July 11 this year in order to work on an aggressive reorganization plan involving selected store closings and large cuts in overhead costs. At the same time the Lansburgh/ Penn Quarter location on 7th Street, N.W. was shuttered to make way for a new London-based restaurant.
"Olsson’s was established in 1972 and grew to as many as nine retail stores in the Washington, D.C. metro area with sales over $16 million a year and as many as 200 employees. Currently there are five retail stores: Reagan National Airport, Old Town Alexandria, Arlington Courthouse, Crystal City, and one in Northwest Washington at Dupont Circle. Olsson’s earned its reputation as a locally-owned community-oriented retailer with a knowledgeable staff selling a wide selection of books, music, video and gifts.
"Stephen Wallace-Haines, Olsson’s general manager stated: 'In the end, all the roads towards reorganization led to this dead end: we did not have the money required to pay for product in advance, to collect reserves to buy for Christmas, and satisfy the demands of rent and operational costs. We were losing money just by staying open.'
"John Olsson, principal owner, Washington native and graduate of Catholic University had this to say, 'Although it is certainly a sad day for us, I can rejoice in all the great memories of my life in retail in Washington. I began at Discount Record Shop on Connecticut Avenue in the fall of 1958, and worked there until 1972 when I left to open my own record store at 1900 L Street. Along the way books were added, more locations, a couple thousand employees, and many thousands of customers. It was exhilarating. Through it all, our best and brightest served Washington’s best and brightest with love and distinction. I’m very proud of what we accomplished. My love and gratitude to all my employees, and special thanks to all those thousands of loyal customers.'"
After the announcement, Olsson's allowed people to weigh in on its blog -- and people wasted little time taking that opportunity. For those who care to take a peek, I'm response #344. To read everybody's thoughts, go here: http://www.olssons.com/blog/archives/1.
These are no small points in a nation where more than 1,000 bookstores closed between 2000 and 2007, leaving about 10,600 standing, according to the latest federal stats that I was able to unearth. Obviously, the growing popularity of e-books and the vicarious thrill of being able to buy an old favorite online has something to do with that figure.
I, for one, am not saying that trend's necessarily bad; e-books have given a lot of authors a new lease on life, one that I fully intend to explore, as well. And I've never been one to rhapsodize about "the good old days," and how wonderful they were, to the exclusion of everything going down today.
The reality is, those who don't want to give up and "go along with the program" will always have to fight for their fair share of real estate -- whether that struggle happens to occur on the air, onstage or at live events like the one that I just chronicled above. But if you feel that an idea's worth fighting for, you won't mind doing the legwork...as the late Rob Tyner once told me: "The only thing that goes with the flow is a dead fish."
John Olsson is gone, too. He died at 78 in October 2010, after a long battle with cancer. However, he left an imprint that won't ever be forgotten, one befitting the man who championed maverick talents like Eva Cassidy, and Danny Gatton. I saw that philosophy in action back in November 2003, and -- though we never met, nor spoke -- all I can say is, "John, thanks for making me feel at home."
TOM PRINCIPATO DISCUSSES HIS NEW ALBUM (PT III, 1/9/11)
If you've made it this far into the proceedings, you're certainly well aware that Tom Principato isn't merely an archiver for hire, but also an interesting artist in his own right. For further evidence, listen to his latest album, A PART OF ME (Powerhouse Records), which serves up Southern-fried soul ("Sweet Angel"), driving New Orleans rhythms ("Down In Louisiana") and bumptious roots-rock ("Don't Wanna Do It"), without missing the proverbial beat.
My favorites are the title track -- which is the kind of old school soul-rock ballad that you hardly hear anymore -- and "Stranger's Eyes Pt. 2," another worthy addition to Tom's lengthy instrumental musical roll call. And that's before we discuss the special guests, who made their contributions via the magic of technology, as Tom explains: "We would either email or send a CD reference of the basic track. They'd overdub it, email or send it back, and we'd fly it in, with digital synchronization.
"So you'd send a reference down to Sonny Landreth, in Louisiana, and when he had a chance, he went into his favorite local studio...laid it down, sent it back...instead of having him fly up here, or try to catch him when he's in this part of the country on tour." Yes, indeed, a lot has changed since Tom first cranked up his stacks 40-odd years ago, but not the commitment to making passionate music. (For more information, visit: www.tomprincipato.com/.)
CHAIRMAN RALPH (CR): It's interesting to see some of the guest names you've got here. You've got Chuck Leavell, you've got Brian Auger: that's not a name that has popped up in my brain for quite awhile.
TOM PRINCIPATO (TP): Well, I've known Brian through an all-star band that Catfish Hodge has been putting together every year, the January All-Stars. The personnel has changed, but the group started out to be Catfish Hodge, myself, Steve Wolf on bass, Pete Ragusa on drums, and Brian Auger on organ. I've always been aware of Brian, and actually, I saw him with the Trinity in 1970, at the Cellar Door.
After we did a couple of gigs with Brian, I'm going, “This guy is good as anybody in the world!” And it's true, man. He's incredible. He takes a really nice solo on his album, but I've heard him do stuff as good as Jimmy Smith. He just tears it up! So, when I got this idea to do an album that involved some of these kind of guys, I immediately thought of him – and he was very generous.
CR: And there he was! Of course, the association with Chuck was a little closer to home – since, like you, he is a Southerner.
TP: Well, not only that, I met him when I was in Geoff Muldaur's band, in 1980. We did a show with Sea Level in New England, and that was when I first met Chuck. But he's been involved in two of my other albums. He produced my Tip Of The Iceberg album, and he plays on my Really Blue album.
CR: What do you get from him, that you don't get from [playing with] somebody else?
TP: Well, he's just got a special way of accompanying me on the organ, and he just plays some great stuff. His style is individual. He's a great guy, a Southern gentleman, and I just like working with him. He never disappoints me with the stuff that he sends, when I ask him [to contribute something].
CR: Indeed. So what was the basic recording strategy with this particular album? It's got a very live sound to it, I noticed...
TP: Right. Yeah, I was really trying to go for an organic sound, and we used ProTools – but I think, in all of the non-objectionable ways, you know. We used it to sort of supplement the music, not screw with it.
CR: Not overwhelm it!
TP: Yeah, so that was pretty cool – but my approach always is to set up in the studio, and perform the way we do at the gigs. Usually, it's with the core group – guitar, bass and drums. I go for live solos as much as I can. I really don't like overdubbing them. I did do more overdubbing this time than I usually do on an album, but there were still a number of live things. I mean, “Down In Louisiana” is completely live. My solo on “Down The Road,” with Brian Auger, and Willie Weeks, and Jim Brock, that's all live. And “Back Again And Gone,” with Steve Wolf, and Joe Wells – that was live.
CR: Yeah, and I have to say that on listening to “A Part Of Me,” I thought, “Wow, this sounds like the old school kind of song that they really don't do anymore!” That was an interesting highlight for me.
TP (laughs): Yeah! It was a kick to have Wayne Jackson and the Memphis Horns on that. He did all the horns for all the Otis Redding records, and a lot of the Al Green stuff, too.
CR: So what do you think works here, from a songwriting point of view? What have you been playing from it live?
TP: Well, oddly enough, we haven't been doing the instrumentals. I'm trying to demonstrate my growth as a singer, and a songwriter, so we're doing “Down In Louisiana,” and we do “A Stranger's Eyes.” We do “Part Of Me” – the audiences just love “Part Of Me.” “Sweet Angel” has been popular with the audiences, too. They're diggin' that one.
CR: So you've been really pushing the song aspect of your personality this time around, then. Of course, that's another curse great guitar players deal with. It's easy to think of them purely as players, and forget about all the other stuff.
TP: Right. Well, you know, I'm willing to admit that – although I've been attempting singing for awhile – I've usually been regarded as my strongest attribute being my guitar playing. But I've really, really been working on the singing, and I think I've had some improvement, and I'm pleased about that. People seem to be enjoying it more – although, even before this improvement phase – a typical thing that people would say to me is, they wouldn't say they thought I was a great singer. They would just say, “I like your singing.” So, I mean, to me, that's as good as anything.
CR: Well, if it has character to it, that's half the battle, isn't it? A lot of people gave Mike Bloomfield shit for that, but to me, that's one of the more endearing qualities of his later stuff.
TP: Yeah, actually, I enjoy his vocals, too. And, to tell you the truth, I enjoy Roy Buchanan's vocals, as well.
CR: Yeah. I put that CD on, along with yours, late last night – 'cause I thought, “That's the best time to listen to something like this.” And with Roy, I could almost feel like I was right there in the room with him.
TP: Yeah. Well, some numb nuts gave me a review recently – I don't even remember where it was now, but I felt compelled to respond to him. He basically said, “Well, Principato had all this star power on the album, I don't understand why he didn't hire a singer, too.”
CR: To which you said...
TP: To which I said, “Well, I felt like I wanted to demonstrate my growth as a a singer, and I'm very pleased with my vocals on this album, and all I can do is do my best.”
CR: Yeah. And some people will like it, and some won't – and that's the way it goes. So, was singing something that you had to struggle with, in the beginning? Did you feel self-conscious [in] taking that on? I mean, how did we approach that?
TP: Well, I'll tell you. It's really not that easy to sing and play rhythm guitar at the same time, or to sing and play guitar at the same time. And it's really something you've got to develop. That doesn't have anything to do with how well you're singing – just doing the two in one is a whole accomplishment in itself. You know, it's been a long development mental process, and I never felt like I could improvise with my voice, like I can with my guitar, but nowadays, I feel like I can do it better than ever.
CR: Well, that's good to hear, so hopefully, then – [on] the next album or two, we'll see that explored a little bit further.
TP: I've been pleased with my vocals at our last live performances. We did some live audio/video recording this past Friday night, and I was pleased with the vocals, so...we'll see. I might be getting somewhere.
CR: But, of course, you may have a bit of pulling power – in the sense that, you're one of the last of the old guys from the D.C. area that's out there pretty regularly...so, that may be a draw for people, in and of itself. They may know your name, but not necessarily what you've been doing lately, know what I mean?
TP: Oh, yeah, definitely! Actually, I think that's a pretty big issue.
CR: In what sense?
TP: Well, I think that I have grown, and changed – and I don't think that a lot of people have realized that. I think it's harder than ever to get people to pay attention these days.
CR: Because there's just so much more stuff out there these days?
TP: Yeah. And, you know, it's funny – on this subject, one of the guys in the band was remarking to me the other day, because we always chuckle about my being put in the “blues guitarist” category. I mean, how much blues is there on “A Part Of Me?” It's bluesy, at times...
CR: But it's not blues-driven, as such.
TP: No. I'm this eclectic roots guy – but one of the guys in the band made a remark: “But you know, every one of these reviews that you get, Tom, always starts out with: 'Blues guitarist Tom Principato.' It doesn't say, 'Guitarist Tom Principato,' or, 'guitar legend,' or whatever. It always says, 'Blues guitarist Tom Principato.'” That's an interesting thing – a lot of people have this antiquated view, or memory, of something that I've done, and don't realize that it may not be like what I am now at all anymore.
CR: Right, and it may not be accurate. And it's interesting, too, because – looking back – you were probably one of the few names of that early era of D.C. [music] to break out, and get to the wider world. Whereas, as you know, a lot of guys like Danny just sort of stayed in that circuit. So, in that respect, you've been probably luckier – but it sounds like there's still some catching up to do, isn't there?
TP: There's been an interesting paradox with me, because I definitely have a lot of name recognition in a lot of different places. I've got over 5,000 friends on Myspace – these are people that have come to me – and I'm reaching my 5,000 limit on Facebook. Those are people that have made requests to me. And I have 500 unanswered friend requests on Facebook. So, obviously, there are thousands of people out there who are aware of me, and my music. Frequently, if I go out, do a show and perform, I don't get a crowd...what's going on? Why is that?
CR: I don't know – I think, perhaps, with the Internet era being what it was, people have so many more choices, and so many more distractions.
TP: Yeah, that's part of it.
CR: Actually, I'll ask you one more question, and then we can hang up. What would you tell people starting out now in that uncertain era – where concert attendances are so horrible, and you've got the issue of downloading, and file-sharing – you've got that whole debate. It seems like the ceiling for sales has never been smaller, in terms of CDs. What do you tell people who might feel nervous about trying to establish themselves in that climate right now?
TP: Well, you just have to be patient and persistent, you know? I don't think anybody wants to give up (laughs), so it just takes more perseverance than ever. That's the main thing.
CR: That's true. Well, of course, you were doing the independent label thing, long before a lot of other folks were.
TP: I was indie before indie was cool (laughs)! And I'm kind of happy about that now, because my little record label has really grown into something nice. I've got a couple of Roy Buchanan albums, a couple of Danny Gatton, a couple of Nighthawks, a dozen of my own albums.
CR: It definitely has its own identity and presence in the marketplace...
TP: Yeah, and I've got a good distribution deal with a great company, Redeye – and I get monthly checks, so yeah, I'm pretty happy. But you know what? I worked my ass off on it.
CR: All right, so life is good – that being said, now it is time to hang up, and let you go.
TP: Well, thanks, Ralph. I appreciate the support. It's always nice talking with you.
My favorites are the title track -- which is the kind of old school soul-rock ballad that you hardly hear anymore -- and "Stranger's Eyes Pt. 2," another worthy addition to Tom's lengthy instrumental musical roll call. And that's before we discuss the special guests, who made their contributions via the magic of technology, as Tom explains: "We would either email or send a CD reference of the basic track. They'd overdub it, email or send it back, and we'd fly it in, with digital synchronization.
"So you'd send a reference down to Sonny Landreth, in Louisiana, and when he had a chance, he went into his favorite local studio...laid it down, sent it back...instead of having him fly up here, or try to catch him when he's in this part of the country on tour." Yes, indeed, a lot has changed since Tom first cranked up his stacks 40-odd years ago, but not the commitment to making passionate music. (For more information, visit: www.tomprincipato.com/.)
CHAIRMAN RALPH (CR): It's interesting to see some of the guest names you've got here. You've got Chuck Leavell, you've got Brian Auger: that's not a name that has popped up in my brain for quite awhile.
TOM PRINCIPATO (TP): Well, I've known Brian through an all-star band that Catfish Hodge has been putting together every year, the January All-Stars. The personnel has changed, but the group started out to be Catfish Hodge, myself, Steve Wolf on bass, Pete Ragusa on drums, and Brian Auger on organ. I've always been aware of Brian, and actually, I saw him with the Trinity in 1970, at the Cellar Door.
After we did a couple of gigs with Brian, I'm going, “This guy is good as anybody in the world!” And it's true, man. He's incredible. He takes a really nice solo on his album, but I've heard him do stuff as good as Jimmy Smith. He just tears it up! So, when I got this idea to do an album that involved some of these kind of guys, I immediately thought of him – and he was very generous.
CR: And there he was! Of course, the association with Chuck was a little closer to home – since, like you, he is a Southerner.
TP: Well, not only that, I met him when I was in Geoff Muldaur's band, in 1980. We did a show with Sea Level in New England, and that was when I first met Chuck. But he's been involved in two of my other albums. He produced my Tip Of The Iceberg album, and he plays on my Really Blue album.
CR: What do you get from him, that you don't get from [playing with] somebody else?
TP: Well, he's just got a special way of accompanying me on the organ, and he just plays some great stuff. His style is individual. He's a great guy, a Southern gentleman, and I just like working with him. He never disappoints me with the stuff that he sends, when I ask him [to contribute something].
CR: Indeed. So what was the basic recording strategy with this particular album? It's got a very live sound to it, I noticed...
TP: Right. Yeah, I was really trying to go for an organic sound, and we used ProTools – but I think, in all of the non-objectionable ways, you know. We used it to sort of supplement the music, not screw with it.
CR: Not overwhelm it!
TP: Yeah, so that was pretty cool – but my approach always is to set up in the studio, and perform the way we do at the gigs. Usually, it's with the core group – guitar, bass and drums. I go for live solos as much as I can. I really don't like overdubbing them. I did do more overdubbing this time than I usually do on an album, but there were still a number of live things. I mean, “Down In Louisiana” is completely live. My solo on “Down The Road,” with Brian Auger, and Willie Weeks, and Jim Brock, that's all live. And “Back Again And Gone,” with Steve Wolf, and Joe Wells – that was live.
CR: Yeah, and I have to say that on listening to “A Part Of Me,” I thought, “Wow, this sounds like the old school kind of song that they really don't do anymore!” That was an interesting highlight for me.
TP (laughs): Yeah! It was a kick to have Wayne Jackson and the Memphis Horns on that. He did all the horns for all the Otis Redding records, and a lot of the Al Green stuff, too.
CR: So what do you think works here, from a songwriting point of view? What have you been playing from it live?
TP: Well, oddly enough, we haven't been doing the instrumentals. I'm trying to demonstrate my growth as a singer, and a songwriter, so we're doing “Down In Louisiana,” and we do “A Stranger's Eyes.” We do “Part Of Me” – the audiences just love “Part Of Me.” “Sweet Angel” has been popular with the audiences, too. They're diggin' that one.
CR: So you've been really pushing the song aspect of your personality this time around, then. Of course, that's another curse great guitar players deal with. It's easy to think of them purely as players, and forget about all the other stuff.
TP: Right. Well, you know, I'm willing to admit that – although I've been attempting singing for awhile – I've usually been regarded as my strongest attribute being my guitar playing. But I've really, really been working on the singing, and I think I've had some improvement, and I'm pleased about that. People seem to be enjoying it more – although, even before this improvement phase – a typical thing that people would say to me is, they wouldn't say they thought I was a great singer. They would just say, “I like your singing.” So, I mean, to me, that's as good as anything.
CR: Well, if it has character to it, that's half the battle, isn't it? A lot of people gave Mike Bloomfield shit for that, but to me, that's one of the more endearing qualities of his later stuff.
TP: Yeah, actually, I enjoy his vocals, too. And, to tell you the truth, I enjoy Roy Buchanan's vocals, as well.
CR: Yeah. I put that CD on, along with yours, late last night – 'cause I thought, “That's the best time to listen to something like this.” And with Roy, I could almost feel like I was right there in the room with him.
TP: Yeah. Well, some numb nuts gave me a review recently – I don't even remember where it was now, but I felt compelled to respond to him. He basically said, “Well, Principato had all this star power on the album, I don't understand why he didn't hire a singer, too.”
CR: To which you said...
TP: To which I said, “Well, I felt like I wanted to demonstrate my growth as a a singer, and I'm very pleased with my vocals on this album, and all I can do is do my best.”
CR: Yeah. And some people will like it, and some won't – and that's the way it goes. So, was singing something that you had to struggle with, in the beginning? Did you feel self-conscious [in] taking that on? I mean, how did we approach that?
TP: Well, I'll tell you. It's really not that easy to sing and play rhythm guitar at the same time, or to sing and play guitar at the same time. And it's really something you've got to develop. That doesn't have anything to do with how well you're singing – just doing the two in one is a whole accomplishment in itself. You know, it's been a long development mental process, and I never felt like I could improvise with my voice, like I can with my guitar, but nowadays, I feel like I can do it better than ever.
CR: Well, that's good to hear, so hopefully, then – [on] the next album or two, we'll see that explored a little bit further.
TP: I've been pleased with my vocals at our last live performances. We did some live audio/video recording this past Friday night, and I was pleased with the vocals, so...we'll see. I might be getting somewhere.
CR: But, of course, you may have a bit of pulling power – in the sense that, you're one of the last of the old guys from the D.C. area that's out there pretty regularly...so, that may be a draw for people, in and of itself. They may know your name, but not necessarily what you've been doing lately, know what I mean?
TP: Oh, yeah, definitely! Actually, I think that's a pretty big issue.
CR: In what sense?
TP: Well, I think that I have grown, and changed – and I don't think that a lot of people have realized that. I think it's harder than ever to get people to pay attention these days.
CR: Because there's just so much more stuff out there these days?
TP: Yeah. And, you know, it's funny – on this subject, one of the guys in the band was remarking to me the other day, because we always chuckle about my being put in the “blues guitarist” category. I mean, how much blues is there on “A Part Of Me?” It's bluesy, at times...
CR: But it's not blues-driven, as such.
TP: No. I'm this eclectic roots guy – but one of the guys in the band made a remark: “But you know, every one of these reviews that you get, Tom, always starts out with: 'Blues guitarist Tom Principato.' It doesn't say, 'Guitarist Tom Principato,' or, 'guitar legend,' or whatever. It always says, 'Blues guitarist Tom Principato.'” That's an interesting thing – a lot of people have this antiquated view, or memory, of something that I've done, and don't realize that it may not be like what I am now at all anymore.
CR: Right, and it may not be accurate. And it's interesting, too, because – looking back – you were probably one of the few names of that early era of D.C. [music] to break out, and get to the wider world. Whereas, as you know, a lot of guys like Danny just sort of stayed in that circuit. So, in that respect, you've been probably luckier – but it sounds like there's still some catching up to do, isn't there?
TP: There's been an interesting paradox with me, because I definitely have a lot of name recognition in a lot of different places. I've got over 5,000 friends on Myspace – these are people that have come to me – and I'm reaching my 5,000 limit on Facebook. Those are people that have made requests to me. And I have 500 unanswered friend requests on Facebook. So, obviously, there are thousands of people out there who are aware of me, and my music. Frequently, if I go out, do a show and perform, I don't get a crowd...what's going on? Why is that?
CR: I don't know – I think, perhaps, with the Internet era being what it was, people have so many more choices, and so many more distractions.
TP: Yeah, that's part of it.
CR: Actually, I'll ask you one more question, and then we can hang up. What would you tell people starting out now in that uncertain era – where concert attendances are so horrible, and you've got the issue of downloading, and file-sharing – you've got that whole debate. It seems like the ceiling for sales has never been smaller, in terms of CDs. What do you tell people who might feel nervous about trying to establish themselves in that climate right now?
TP: Well, you just have to be patient and persistent, you know? I don't think anybody wants to give up (laughs), so it just takes more perseverance than ever. That's the main thing.
CR: That's true. Well, of course, you were doing the independent label thing, long before a lot of other folks were.
TP: I was indie before indie was cool (laughs)! And I'm kind of happy about that now, because my little record label has really grown into something nice. I've got a couple of Roy Buchanan albums, a couple of Danny Gatton, a couple of Nighthawks, a dozen of my own albums.
CR: It definitely has its own identity and presence in the marketplace...
TP: Yeah, and I've got a good distribution deal with a great company, Redeye – and I get monthly checks, so yeah, I'm pretty happy. But you know what? I worked my ass off on it.
CR: All right, so life is good – that being said, now it is time to hang up, and let you go.
TP: Well, thanks, Ralph. I appreciate the support. It's always nice talking with you.
TOM PRINCIPATO SPEAKS, PT. II (1/9/11)
DUELING LEGACIES: DANNY GATTON VS. ROY BUCHANAN
CHAIRMAN RALPH (CR): What did Roy give Danny, and vice versa, from your perspective, since you've seen them both often enough to comment?
TP: My favorite quote on this is, “I think that Roy wrote the book, and Danny added his own chapter.” I mean, to me – the style that Roy invented, I call it, “Telecaster on Mars,” or “James Burton on acid.” James Burton was never that wild. He was always that good, but he was never that phrase-y, and introverted. To me, Roy really, really invented that “Telecaster on Mars” style, and I really do feel like in the beginning, that's what Danny based his style on.
But then, Roy continued to just be sort of a blues guy – and Danny had that incredible jazz phase, with REDNECK JAZZ, and just became a lot more versatile, and a lot more accomplished than Roy. I mean, Roy had chops, but Danny was the amazing technician. I don't hear any of Danny Gatton in Roy Buchanan, myself. I hear tons of Roy in Danny.
CR: Of course, Roy did stick more with the blues and R&B kind of stuff, too, didn't he?
TP: Yeah. Danny had his banjo background, which had a lot to do with his right hand technique, the rolling fingers stuff – Danny was just all over the place, man. If the two played together, Danny would just play circles around Roy, but each had his own thing. To me, Roy was much more soulful, and more deeply emotional than Danny, in a general way. I mean, Danny had his “Harlem Nocturne,” but Roy had a whole bunch of stuff like that, where it was pretty deep, emotionally.
CR: In many ways, considering what happened to them, career-wise – they both suffered from that same syndrome of “guitar hero that couldn't quite find their niche.”
TP: Yeah, but you know what? It was cool, because once Danny got his [major label] opportunity [with Elektra Records], it spurred him on to make one of the best records of his career. 88 ELMIRA ST has got so much great stuff on it. To me, that and UNFINISHED BUSINESS are the two pinnacles of the Danny Gatton that we know. And the other Danny Gatton is the Lenny Breau, [and] REDNECK JAZZ guy. That album is a wonderful statement, too, but UNFINISHED BUSINESS and 88 ELMIRA, to me, are the two definitive Danny statements.
CR: Yeah, that's true. That album has a lot of great stuff on it...
TP: And I'm so pleased that I was not only able to re-release that album, but remaster it. I'm so pleased about the way we improved the sound on the UNFINISHED BUSINESS reissue. It [the original LP release] was really, really flat-sounding and low output – you had to crank the stereo up, and it just didn't pop.
And when it went from LP to CD the first time, I disagreed with the song choice. Norma [Gatton] added a couple of additional tracks, so I decided to leave one of those off [“Georgia On My Mind”]. And that bonus cut I culled from those Danny home demos, I think it's a really great cut, too. Actually, THE HUMBLER STAKES HIS CLAIM has not really sold that well – hasn't sold nearly as good as Unfinished Business.
CR: It would represent a prime period of his live career, I think, that people would be interested in.
TP: The only thing I can guess is that maybe some people are turned off by the lower sonic quality, but, to me – I think it's killer.
CR: One thing record companies always argue against, when they talk about releasing famous bootleg tapes is: “Well, they already have it, so what's the point of doing it?”
TP: Oh, no, honestly – this stuff has not been circulating in bootleg circles at all. That was one of the main impetuses for me, if that's the word (laughs), to go ahead with it: “Yeah! I knew the collectors didn't have this shit.” Maybe word just hasn't gotten out enough yet, I don't know.
CR: Well, maybe – like a lot of things associated with Danny, it's gonna take awhile to seep through to the popular culture, perhaps.
TP: Yes, and no – because UNFINISHED BUSINESS is selling well. I'm gonna go to the distributor website and check some numbers... OK, let's see: LIVE IN '77 has sold better than I thought: 3,900. That's pretty good. The first Roy [CD: AMERICAN AXE] sold over 10,000 now. The AMAZING GRACE one has sold 2,648 [copies]. That's in two years.
CR: In two years – and how about UNFINISHED BUSINESS?
TP: It is 4,450 [copies], and that's a reissue.
CR: That's not bad – maybe you should go into the reissue business, I guess.
TP: Well, they're great to do. I mean, the way I've been doing 'em, the overhead is generally low, and it's fun. I enjoy doing it. Let's ses: OH, NO! MORE BLAZING TELECASTERS has sold decently, not as well as I thought it would. It's sold about 2,200. Of course, the first BLAZING TELECASTERS, since it started out on LP, it's probably well over 15,000 by now.
CR: Yeah, I know. That's kind of, one of the more obscure points of Danny's career, for the non-initiate. I imagine that was part of its appeal all along, wasn't it?
TP: Yeah, I guess so. And I think, from the guitar crowd, it would raise an eyebrow to hear, “Oh, Tom Principato and Danny Gatton [worked] together,” even though I never considered myself in the same league – nor do I think a lot of other people did, either. But I think I was known as a really good guitarist....and I actually got Danny to rehearse (laughs)!
CR: Which was something he was well-known for never doing...
TP: Yes, and I'll tell you – I have at least one of the rehearsals taped, and he's definitely bitching on it (more laughter on this point).
CR: Well, there you go – you could always release a snippet of that, I guess. Are we actually in danger of seeing Danny's and Roy's [musical] footprint disappearing?
TP: Well, that's the way to perpetuate legacies. I mean, Jimi Hendrix has been really lucky that way.
RH: Well, we'll see – maybe if you get that other Roy stuff out, that'll kick-start something. Of course, there's Danny's stuff on video, too, right? Although the quality is maybe not that great... in the case of the Redneck Jazz [Explosion] stuff [from the 1978 Cellar Door run in Washington, D.C.], it's very grainy, and it looks like it was shot underwater.
TP: Actually, I'll tell you, I have been in touch with the guy that filmed that [gig] – That's actually very good quality filming, and it's in color. The grainy black and white [version] you're thinking about is the reference [film] from Bob Dawson, the engineer. He stuck a black and white camera in the balcony of the Cellar Door, so he could see what was going on during the remote recording. But there was another guy,that filmed Danny, that whole night. I've been in touch with him – a couple of the clips are color, and they're on Youtube. They're all wearing those...
RH: Those horrible matching T-shirts, with their beer bellies sticking out – but people would want to see that.
TP: Exactly. I've been on him, I've been on him, I've been on him, and he keeps saying: “Oh, it's taking me so long to convert these over to digital.” For some reason, he's hemming and hawing, and he's not coming through – I would love to release that stuff, but I can't get him to give it up.
CR: Once again, that goes back to the politics of what it takes to get something like that done. It's not an easy business, is it?
TP: No, it isn't. I mean, if something drops into my lap, I probably might try to jump on it. But I'm definitely not gonna do all this archive searching that I used to do, and believe me, I've done a lot of it.
CR: And it's very time-consuming, isn't it?
TP: Yeah, and it's expensive, too! When you go to someone like a “Musikladen,” in Germany – or a WNET, in New York – you don't just say, “Oh, hey, go look for a Roy Buchanan film for me, and let me know what you come up with.” You have to pay for an archive search – it's like $700 or $800, just to know if they've got something!
CR: Wow! That might be an education for people – it doesn't sound like much, but, of course, you do this enough...
TP: Hey, you know what? I could license the Roy Buchanan PBS Bill Graham special, but you know why I don't? Because PBS charges for video licensing by the second.
CR: By the second?
TP: And that's the reality of bigtime video music licensing. Most of those places license snippets for documentaries, but just think of that – every time on VH1, when they're doing [a documentary] like, “Whatever Happened to the Blind Lemon Squeezers?” – if there's footage of them, it probably cost about $2.50 a second.
CR: Well, I guess we'll just have to stay tuned.
TP: We'll see what happens.
CHAIRMAN RALPH (CR): What did Roy give Danny, and vice versa, from your perspective, since you've seen them both often enough to comment?
TP: My favorite quote on this is, “I think that Roy wrote the book, and Danny added his own chapter.” I mean, to me – the style that Roy invented, I call it, “Telecaster on Mars,” or “James Burton on acid.” James Burton was never that wild. He was always that good, but he was never that phrase-y, and introverted. To me, Roy really, really invented that “Telecaster on Mars” style, and I really do feel like in the beginning, that's what Danny based his style on.
But then, Roy continued to just be sort of a blues guy – and Danny had that incredible jazz phase, with REDNECK JAZZ, and just became a lot more versatile, and a lot more accomplished than Roy. I mean, Roy had chops, but Danny was the amazing technician. I don't hear any of Danny Gatton in Roy Buchanan, myself. I hear tons of Roy in Danny.
CR: Of course, Roy did stick more with the blues and R&B kind of stuff, too, didn't he?
TP: Yeah. Danny had his banjo background, which had a lot to do with his right hand technique, the rolling fingers stuff – Danny was just all over the place, man. If the two played together, Danny would just play circles around Roy, but each had his own thing. To me, Roy was much more soulful, and more deeply emotional than Danny, in a general way. I mean, Danny had his “Harlem Nocturne,” but Roy had a whole bunch of stuff like that, where it was pretty deep, emotionally.
CR: In many ways, considering what happened to them, career-wise – they both suffered from that same syndrome of “guitar hero that couldn't quite find their niche.”
TP: Yeah, but you know what? It was cool, because once Danny got his [major label] opportunity [with Elektra Records], it spurred him on to make one of the best records of his career. 88 ELMIRA ST has got so much great stuff on it. To me, that and UNFINISHED BUSINESS are the two pinnacles of the Danny Gatton that we know. And the other Danny Gatton is the Lenny Breau, [and] REDNECK JAZZ guy. That album is a wonderful statement, too, but UNFINISHED BUSINESS and 88 ELMIRA, to me, are the two definitive Danny statements.
CR: Yeah, that's true. That album has a lot of great stuff on it...
TP: And I'm so pleased that I was not only able to re-release that album, but remaster it. I'm so pleased about the way we improved the sound on the UNFINISHED BUSINESS reissue. It [the original LP release] was really, really flat-sounding and low output – you had to crank the stereo up, and it just didn't pop.
And when it went from LP to CD the first time, I disagreed with the song choice. Norma [Gatton] added a couple of additional tracks, so I decided to leave one of those off [“Georgia On My Mind”]. And that bonus cut I culled from those Danny home demos, I think it's a really great cut, too. Actually, THE HUMBLER STAKES HIS CLAIM has not really sold that well – hasn't sold nearly as good as Unfinished Business.
CR: It would represent a prime period of his live career, I think, that people would be interested in.
TP: The only thing I can guess is that maybe some people are turned off by the lower sonic quality, but, to me – I think it's killer.
CR: One thing record companies always argue against, when they talk about releasing famous bootleg tapes is: “Well, they already have it, so what's the point of doing it?”
TP: Oh, no, honestly – this stuff has not been circulating in bootleg circles at all. That was one of the main impetuses for me, if that's the word (laughs), to go ahead with it: “Yeah! I knew the collectors didn't have this shit.” Maybe word just hasn't gotten out enough yet, I don't know.
CR: Well, maybe – like a lot of things associated with Danny, it's gonna take awhile to seep through to the popular culture, perhaps.
TP: Yes, and no – because UNFINISHED BUSINESS is selling well. I'm gonna go to the distributor website and check some numbers... OK, let's see: LIVE IN '77 has sold better than I thought: 3,900. That's pretty good. The first Roy [CD: AMERICAN AXE] sold over 10,000 now. The AMAZING GRACE one has sold 2,648 [copies]. That's in two years.
CR: In two years – and how about UNFINISHED BUSINESS?
TP: It is 4,450 [copies], and that's a reissue.
CR: That's not bad – maybe you should go into the reissue business, I guess.
TP: Well, they're great to do. I mean, the way I've been doing 'em, the overhead is generally low, and it's fun. I enjoy doing it. Let's ses: OH, NO! MORE BLAZING TELECASTERS has sold decently, not as well as I thought it would. It's sold about 2,200. Of course, the first BLAZING TELECASTERS, since it started out on LP, it's probably well over 15,000 by now.
CR: Yeah, I know. That's kind of, one of the more obscure points of Danny's career, for the non-initiate. I imagine that was part of its appeal all along, wasn't it?
TP: Yeah, I guess so. And I think, from the guitar crowd, it would raise an eyebrow to hear, “Oh, Tom Principato and Danny Gatton [worked] together,” even though I never considered myself in the same league – nor do I think a lot of other people did, either. But I think I was known as a really good guitarist....and I actually got Danny to rehearse (laughs)!
CR: Which was something he was well-known for never doing...
TP: Yes, and I'll tell you – I have at least one of the rehearsals taped, and he's definitely bitching on it (more laughter on this point).
CR: Well, there you go – you could always release a snippet of that, I guess. Are we actually in danger of seeing Danny's and Roy's [musical] footprint disappearing?
TP: Well, that's the way to perpetuate legacies. I mean, Jimi Hendrix has been really lucky that way.
RH: Well, we'll see – maybe if you get that other Roy stuff out, that'll kick-start something. Of course, there's Danny's stuff on video, too, right? Although the quality is maybe not that great... in the case of the Redneck Jazz [Explosion] stuff [from the 1978 Cellar Door run in Washington, D.C.], it's very grainy, and it looks like it was shot underwater.
TP: Actually, I'll tell you, I have been in touch with the guy that filmed that [gig] – That's actually very good quality filming, and it's in color. The grainy black and white [version] you're thinking about is the reference [film] from Bob Dawson, the engineer. He stuck a black and white camera in the balcony of the Cellar Door, so he could see what was going on during the remote recording. But there was another guy,that filmed Danny, that whole night. I've been in touch with him – a couple of the clips are color, and they're on Youtube. They're all wearing those...
RH: Those horrible matching T-shirts, with their beer bellies sticking out – but people would want to see that.
TP: Exactly. I've been on him, I've been on him, I've been on him, and he keeps saying: “Oh, it's taking me so long to convert these over to digital.” For some reason, he's hemming and hawing, and he's not coming through – I would love to release that stuff, but I can't get him to give it up.
CR: Once again, that goes back to the politics of what it takes to get something like that done. It's not an easy business, is it?
TP: No, it isn't. I mean, if something drops into my lap, I probably might try to jump on it. But I'm definitely not gonna do all this archive searching that I used to do, and believe me, I've done a lot of it.
CR: And it's very time-consuming, isn't it?
TP: Yeah, and it's expensive, too! When you go to someone like a “Musikladen,” in Germany – or a WNET, in New York – you don't just say, “Oh, hey, go look for a Roy Buchanan film for me, and let me know what you come up with.” You have to pay for an archive search – it's like $700 or $800, just to know if they've got something!
CR: Wow! That might be an education for people – it doesn't sound like much, but, of course, you do this enough...
TP: Hey, you know what? I could license the Roy Buchanan PBS Bill Graham special, but you know why I don't? Because PBS charges for video licensing by the second.
CR: By the second?
TP: And that's the reality of bigtime video music licensing. Most of those places license snippets for documentaries, but just think of that – every time on VH1, when they're doing [a documentary] like, “Whatever Happened to the Blind Lemon Squeezers?” – if there's footage of them, it probably cost about $2.50 a second.
CR: Well, I guess we'll just have to stay tuned.
TP: We'll see what happens.